Jon Kabat-Zinn joins Richie and Cort for a wide-ranging conversation on mindfulness, science, and what it means to fully inhabit your life.
From the launch of Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) in a hospital basement in 1979 to more than 1,000 scientific papers a year on mindfulness today, this episode traces how a simple practice entered mainstream medicine and reshaped the way we understand stress, healing, and human potential.
Along the way, the conversation moves from chronic pain and anxiety to awareness as a trainable capacity, the role of community, and why paying attention may be one of the most important skills of our time.
As Jon reflects, if you are missing this moment, what makes you think you will not miss the next?
This episode explores how mindfulness can extend beyond stress reduction toward living more deliberately, with clarity, compassion, and connection.
Podcast Chapter List:
00:00 – The Gateway: Stress, Burnout & Why We Come to Practice
01:08 – Introducing Jon Kabat-Zinn & the Origins of MBSR
05:12 – What Is Mindfulness? Dharma, Awareness & Human Potential
09:07 – Why MBSR Started in a Hospital Basement
18:39 – “They Gave You the Patients No One Could Help”
19:58 – How Science and Contemplative Practice Came Together
21:42 – The 2003 Randomized Controlled Trial That Changed the Field
25:18 – Meeting People Where They Are: Anxiety as a Doorway
26:28 – “Are You Your Diagnosis?” Identity & the Shift from Doing to Being
30:11 – Why More People Meditate — But Many Still Struggle
33:50 – Medicine for Humanity: Mindfulness in a Time of Crisis
40:52 – Awareness as a Human Superpower
45:00 – Flourishing Is Contagious (And Trainable)
46:46 – Awe, Connection & Learning to Pay Attention
47:59 – Not Missing Your Life: Thoreau, Walden, & Living Deliberately
49:15 – A Rhapsody for Mindfulness
Cort and Richie’s new book is coming out in a few weeks! Pre-order Born to Flourish and get:
1 full year of paid access to Dharma Lab ($100 value) with weekly essays, research updates, podcasts, and member-only online events
Live access to an exclusive Born to Flourish Launch Event
Richie and Cort’s personal reading list on the art of flourishing
A daily protocol for training the mind to flourish
